Before I get into this [again], I’d like to state that I’m really not trying to be dogmatic about this whole bikini thing. No, there’s no ban on bikinis anywhere in the Catechism, and no, I’m not saying that if you wear one you’re damned to Hell.
However, I got a lot of feedback from women last week who just weren’t all that convinced by my 4 reasons to keep bikini pictures off Facebook (Apparently my word is not law after all…oh well).
So, while recognizing that you’re completely entitled to your own opinion and are free to make your own decisions and all that whatnot, I’d just like all of you ladies to be a tad more informed on what is actually going on in the minds of some of the more outspoken boys (clearly, not men) of the interweb. In their own words—in response to my bold claim that there actually exist decent men out there who are inclined to hide bikini pictures from their Facebook newsfeeds:
- “Well I know I hide the bikini shots….saving them is hiding them, right?”
- “On #2, when they talk about hiding it, does that mean saving it to that special folder on my desktop?”
- “As if any man would “hide” your bikini body on his newsfeed. Whoever told her that was either lying or gay”
- “She is kind of right in that some women just want to post pics of a fun day WITMY GURLZ without realizing that dudes will be ogling the **** out of those pics on FB”
- “Right click + save IS the Hide function, you nitwit!”
- “75% of men look and 25% lie”
- “Seriously man who needs porn when Facebook exists”
And the comment that I found the most disturbing (not to mention misguided, as there have been countless studies showing the negative/addictive effects of pornography):
- “…my point is that ‘objectifying’ doesn’t really go too far. A man who is mature and smart enough to separate fantasy from reality does no harm in using a random facebook woman to model for his imagination. No harm done in the real world.”
I realize that the Internet has a way of bringing out the creeps, weirdos, and pervs of the world, but keep in mind that Facebook is also a part of the Internet. To sum all of this up with the words of another male commentator: “I have thought for a long time that if women understood the way men’s brains worked, they wouldn’t dress the way they do.”
And I stand by my statement. The truly mature and smart men out there (yes, the ones you want to date and be friends with), will not objectify you. As one such man puts it:
I confess that I am one of those guys who hides the bikini pictures on my Facebook news feed. So what do I think about this? …Guys, ultimately, whatever goes on in your head is your responsibility and that girl on the beach is not making you sin. But…girls…we need help…
Us men have no idea what it’s like to be a woman and to go through the struggles you go through. You do incredible things and we’re kind of left standing around like a bunch of half-witted louts wondering how exactly you girls do what you do. But on the same level of intellectual honesty, you have no idea what it’s like to be a man. And for Christian guys, the struggle of taking dominion over our masculinity is that much harder. Our identity in Christ forms us into men who want to put the Lord first in our lives. But our culture is all about objectifying women and turning them into vehicles for lust. There is tremendous cultural pressure for us to go along with that, and it is a daily battle, nay, a daily war that we fight to keep it at bay. It is the grace of God and nothing else that keeps us pure and waiting on Him.
But sisters, we need help. When we hang out with our Christian sisters, it is a place of safety for us. Or at least it should be. We need to be able to trust that you are going to place your trust in God… just as we fight to protect you. And it is so hard to fight that battle when our Christian sisters are dressing in the same swimsuits that the world finds fashionable. We are fighting to respect you and trust me when I say that those bikinis do not help.
So there you have it, ladies and gentlemen, straight from the mouths of men (and boys). It’s your decision whether or not to listen.
Well-said, as usual, Mary. For those pointing out that the Catechism doesn’t ban bikinis, maybe St. Paul can help them:
Then let us no more pass judgment on one another, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother. I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but it is unclean for any one who thinks it unclean. If your brother is being injured by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love. Do not let what you eat cause the ruin of one for whom Christ died.
-Romans 14: 13-15
Obviously he is discussing the relationship between Jewish dietary laws and Christianity, but the meaning is clear…we are supposed to be helping each other get to Heaven. There are already enough stumbling blocks in the world; we don’t need to trip each other.
I respect your point of view on this, but would also like to point out that this is very one-sided. While it may not be to the same extreme as men, as a straight female, I cannot help but look and be attracted to pictures of shirtless men I run across on Facebook. I could say that I wasn’t objectifying them, but that would be a lie. What is your opinion on this?
Well, in an attempt to defend myself I’d like to point out that it was intentionally one-sided. It was meant to be a post about what women post on Facebook and how that affects men, not the other way around. That being said, I think you’re right. Men need to respect their dignity and help protect us women as well.
I would be honored to add one more testimony to the mix:
Being a young male, I can personally support to the truth behind this article. I am a man and rest assured, I understand the minds of men; wearing bikinis will incite lust in the minds/hearts of the men who see you. This is a simple fact.
As a man who’s deepest desire is to pursue the heart of my Creator, I have grown to understand my own depravity and sin through personally falling into this lust in my own mind more often than often than I can remember. (Praise be to God for his glorious Grace!) My point is that it is through personal experience that make these claims; I am not simply speculating.
On the other hand I do not presume to understand the struggles of the woman’s heart. And I certainly pass no judgment upon any women who wears a bikini. Furthermore, I am in no way trying to say to it is not a man responsibility to control his own mind (this is perfectly true and scripturally clear).
However, I still think it is important for you to understand the truth from a man’s point of view… It all comes down to this, the woman’s body is incredibly sexually alluring (This is great news..! Further praise be to God!). But men are incredibly weak in this area and if you don’t want to “sexually allure” every male on Facebook then you would be wise to carefully consider the implications that come with appearing in pictures wearing bikinis. That’s all there is to it… There is really nothing to argue about.
I think there is something to argue about, actually…
I’ll see your “men are incredibly weak in this area” and raise you Philippians 4:13. Why do we insist on telling our men, over and _over_ again, that because they are men (not because they are fallen human beings, but because they are _male_), that they are doomed to moral weakness?
We know that God does not burden with us with anything that he does not also equip us to overcome. If we put our energy into telling men about their strength as children of God instead of their weakness as males, I imagine we would be having very different conversations.
As you say: a man’s mind is his _own_ responsibility. What women wear is an issue of their own walk with God and their own hearts and intentions—it should have nothing to do with making things easier on guys. I have the Almighty Creator backing me—I do not require moral training wheels, and I wish people would stop trying to convince me otherwise.
Granted, Romans 14 makes a valid point. But there is a crucial difference between helping an individual person with an individual struggle, and telling an entire class of people that because of their gender they will be plagued by weakness. The former is acting in love—the latter is proclaiming a curse.
I agree to a large extent:
We sin because, in the flesh, we are sinners not because we are male or female. In the same way, our strength to turn away from sin comes only from the grace of God, not from the help of our sisters in Christ.
So yes, both men and women have sin natures and are equally sinful. But this does not mean that the individual genders do not have the capacity to struggle more in one area than in another… They are both equally weak to the power of sin, but they are not necessarily equally weak to every form of sin.
Also, I would disagree a little about the Philippians 4:13 part. Yes, in Christ, we have the power to resist any and all temptation. But I feel that, many times, this power that comes from Christ (the power we speak of in Philippians 4:13) is the power (and perhaps wisdom) to avoid temptation all together. I don’t believe God wants us walking into strip clubs just to prove that, with His power, we can do so without lusting.
Furthermore, I believe personally that I (my redeemed soul) am 100% holy–in that, my holiness is based only on the person of Christ and His finished work on the cross. However, I am still stuck on this depraved earth with my fleshly body, and, therefore, I still, of course, have to capacity to sin. In this way, I would say that, while Christ has given me the ability not to sin, I am still tempted to sin… and do sin on a regular basis (I find myself relying on my own strength rather than His). Therefore, I personally find it wise to avoid temptation in every way in which I have the opportunity to do so. This naturally includes anything that would incite lust in my heart: perhaps bikinis fall in this category. (I can either avoid a sister in Christ–a least with my eyes–or she can be gracious and not force me to have to.)
(Sorry, I think might have showed a little of my reformed Protestant theology in the beginning of that last paragraph… Haha… Anyway, I understand why you would disagree with some of that… assuming you’re Catholic?)
Anyway, again, not trying to say I disagree with you. I think you’re points certainly help to avoid any confusion regarding my last comment.
Its difficult for me to stay pure with my thought without partially clad women, I do not need women assisting me to think about women thighs and beyond…
I love that last quote. He said it so well, and in a way I had never really thought about before. Kudos! With that kind of attitude I know he will make some woman a wonderful husband someday.
I’ve read all of your posts about this topic, and I’ve agreed with them, but I haven’t done anything about it. This one finally hit home and I took down all those pics, thanks Mary!
That’s awesome! Good for you!
excellent!
I was once told by a priest whom i LOVE dearly that, I, as a woman will be responsible for those I LEAD to sin. There’s a saying “evangelize and if necessary use words,” I believe by St. Francis. I think the same is true for lead into temptation and if necessary use words.
These posts about bikinis are awesome Mary! You got me thinking and I asked around some Christian guy friends and all of them admitted that bikinis on the beach are really tempting for them. What really brought the point home for me was seeing a male friend of mine look away from a music video another friend was showing him because there were bikini-clad women in it, and he knew that seeing that right then, would lead to a spiritual battle with himself later.
I’ve thrown out my bikinis and I’ve converted to tankinis/full piece swimsuits and I’ll be encouraging my youth group friends to do the same!
Thanks Mary
Isn’t that funny? Sometimes all we need to do is ask! Who knew?? :)
The thing that bothers me a LOT is going to the department store and trying to find one piece bathing suits for my five year old AND my 11 month old. It’s disgusting when you’re starting to instill complacence in the minds of the parents who are teaching these young women to turn into modest, God loving/fearing women.
Also, I am happily married to a wonderful man, and I would rather have that one man who loves me, warts and all, than 100 men who will objectify me on facebook. The way to find that one man? Someone who loves you in a full on Mu-mu, and who will ask you to take down the pictures of you in a bikini on facebook. =)
Related, though not exactly on the topic. My wife (of 8 months) had the worst time finding stylish, yet modest wedding dresses, as 99/100 of those commercially available were strapless and/or cleavage-bearing…with so many women somehow seeing nothing wrong with it! From a Catholic perspective of those who want to be married in the Church (and as I used to joke with my wife), why are you trying to be “sexy for Jesus?”
Thanks for addressing this! Like many of your other male respondents, it’s difficult enough to stay good (even in marriage) without having extra help!
Thank you, thank you, Thank you Mary! Speaking as a guy who struggles in battle with the devil over Lust this helps to reenrgize me! The quote you put at the end is so true, and one that i need to reflect on more. As males it is ultimately are responisblity to not lust over woman, but thank you so much for posting this, because when our Sisters through Christ dress in a ways that reveals His Love, it gives me personal strenght to turn the tables on evil and win, God Bless
Hi Mary,
I couldnt agree more! Although the Catechism doesnt directly mention bikinis it doesnt make it automatically a good idea for women to post such photos on facebook.
The Catechism does talk about modesty, and as a young man I would never tell a young lady not to take down photos in her bikni ect, I would simply hide it from my feed. However; ladies please remember young men struggling with sins of impurity may feel tempted even as they hide the post.
When we go to the beach we expect to find ladies in bikini’s however sitting at home alone browsing our facebook newsfeed could lead to unwanted temptations. Just a little something to think about…
Something to reflect on from the CCC 2521
“It means refusing to unveil what should remain hidden. It is ordered to chastity to whose sensitivity it bears witness. ”
Regards
Tyson K
http://everythingcatholic.wordpress.com/
[...] (not EVERY man thinks this way, but there is evidence that most do — Jason Evert video and Young and Catholic’s anecdotal evidence) that men have thoughts about what is under the clothing we wear. Yes, it’s their [...]
http://youtu.be/WtzIcz7MOkc
For all those who thought Mary was making up the kind of men who do not support objectifying women, check out this news clip: http://illinoishomepage.net/fulltext/?nxd_id=380322